Discussion:
12 years in UC - time to leave?
(too old to reply)
John from Europe
2006-10-25 08:02:56 UTC
Permalink
Hello all (still) brothers and sisters, and also (almost) all
ex-members and christians and anti-moonies etc....

Lucifer....., please this hello is not for you, I will not communicate
with i.diots like you. I prefer serious talk.

Also please my English is quite poor, please dont use any idioms, slang
etc., I will not understand and not answer. OK? Or do you think that
English is the only language? Or that U.S. is the only democracy? (
must say - from 9/11 I have feeling that US has already nothing to do
with democracy and human rights :)) Anyway this is more sad than funny.
)

So my history: As a child I was raised as catholic. Later in 12 I
"left" christianity and "joined" New Age Movement. Was quite active in
this movement, did lot of meditations, some seminars. I joined UC in
1994, was 17 years old. I am bleesed second time. 1997 broken, 1999
successful (we love each other a lot). Have 2 children - son and
daughter.

1994, 1995 - very enthusiastic, positive. Had a big hope to future for
church. Our national church was fastly growing. It was all about love,
loving community, spirituality
1996 - 1/3 of blessings broken, some members left, growth stopped
(until now).
1997 - I am still very positive, 1st blessing is not easy - my wife is
not humble, wants too much, her faith is not so strong. I am full time,
doing FR
1998 - my spouse found herself a boyfriend, broke blessing and left
church. I have first time critical time. But my faith is strong. All
the time I am doing preblessing. Majority from blessings 97, 98 in our
country are broken. My best friend is also leaving church.
1999 - next blessing is coming. My faith became weakened. Especially
about blessing. I am pushed by my leaders to Blessing 99. I dont want
somehow. I cannot promise that I will not break. My leader accept this.
Finally my blessing is very good. Others are not so successfull.
I start to do inter-religious mission. Meet many religious groups,
study about them, doing common meetings. I have very difficult
relationship with my CARP leader. Even sunday services are so boring.
2000 continuing my inter-religious mission. Many old members from 94-97
already left church. In my city I cannot find any good friend. Almost
all young members already left. Our city is not doing any activities.
No wittnesing. Little by little I am loosing faith.
2001 Chong Pyong seminar, finishing university, my spouse is also
finishing university, starting family life. Starting job. Doing mission
only on family level during free time.
2002 problems with city leader, loosing faith, some new members coming,
some leaving, my two new friends are moving to distant city. My wife is
also not inspired to do some mission. Her brother becomes leader of
another city. All the time he is accusing us, that he is spiritually
younger, but very active, and that to believe is not enough, that we
will go surely to hell. Our son has been born. He is our major mission.
Cannot accept war in Iraq.
2003-2004 some MEPI in Israel during my vacation. A new fresh spiritual
wind. Once again have little faith, hope, ..... Also our dauhter has
been born. We are very busy with reconstruction of old house we have
purchased, especially with children and with my new job. Have no time
for any mission.
2005 one more MEPI. Once again loosing faith....
2006 Find out that I have no reason to continue in UC. Maybe comeback
to New Age?

I find out that It was not so much about love, loving community,
spirituality........... Actually it was too much about money,
byrocracy, totality, lies...
No discussions allowed, no doubts.

Everybody was all the time lying. On one seminar we were teached about
indian idiom: "A man with two tongues will not enter indian heaven".
Actually this was UC way.

For example Hyo Jin - all the time leaders said that the rumors are not
true, that it is from satan. That he is saint, he is a formula man.
And what about next "True" children. One is enjoying her honeymoon with
her boyfriend (a trainer). Second did suicide. Third is punk style
using many ugly words. But dont be afraid. At least they are not poor,
their Papa gave their millions of $$$ for their drugs, .........
Or Kahr Arms? "Are you crazy. It is totally stupid. Our church has
nothing to do with arms. It is lie from anti-cultists. It is against
principle."
Or what about latino Kontras? Nice, beatiful.

And Iraq. Many years no clear standpoint. 1/2 strongly against war, 1/2
fanatically for Bush and his holy wars. But most leaders in Europe was
for war and those against were persecuted. Many had to leave our church
just becouse their opinion about Iraq. And what about reverendo?
"France and Germany has fail and not followed America", and many
others.

And now? Peace tours.... and suddenly against wars. Reverendo,
Reverendo, you like to change your opinions.... Not like unchanging
God. Why? Becouse it is not so much popular in world? Or because it is
already clear how much did Adolf Bush killed innocent people (more than
500 000 Iraqi civilians)?

And what about Wash. Times? You like them so much! All the time we
heard about holy Times...
How can you americans even read them?
I have never seen so much racist, nationalistic, extreme and
pseudo-fascist papers.

This is your unification? tolerance? inter-religious and international
item? peace item?

And reverendo, he is so humble..... He likes to be admired, to be
devoted, to be always with VIPs, to be 1000x coronated.

Of course he is not humanist. He has maybe never said to some member:
"Thank you" or "Please".
Yes this is typically Korean "polite" (a higher race class) . Only
think he knows is to spread a critics and judge.

"You must this and this.."
"And I am superman. I did this and this, praying 1000 years, making 1
000 000 conditions simultaneously, earned all money for UC, matched
3x360 billion couples, made maps of myriads spiritual countries, spent
36 hours a day on fishing, ......"
And we members must do the same... give ten thousands of $$$ to church
all the time (in my country average sallary is about 300$), make 1000
of conditions (our continetal director already started maybe 54. 40-day
condition in his few years career. Maybe he wants to be popular enough,
that no member will forget his name when doing replacement surgery
after 1 000 000th full bow; whats the problem.... DMN and HMN already
did 1xe1000000000000000000000 bows), 24 hours of day do wittnessing, 24
hours of day do studying principle and read tens of speeches hundreds
of time, 24 hours do fundraising and raising thousands of dollars is
not enough, because Papa needs more for his purpose. (He needs more
palaces.)
And who is not capable to do this all is not worthy and is man of
failure. Typical satan child. Dont matter that he was blessed already
10 times and drink couples of gallons of wine/juice.

And those who does not agree: those are all communists!

Yes this is actually typical moonie style.
Those who are not one with reverendo or some leader are automatically
communists. So ex-monnies, christians, muslims, white people, japanese,
russians, non-believers, peace movements members, democrats these all
of course are communist. Becouse communists are worst people ever.
And those lovers and zombies of god Bush would say: those against
me=terrorists. And of course terrorists=communists. Lets destroy them.
Lets make our oil/weapons bussiness. Kook Jin will join us. Why to
destroy them? Becouse we are proud white Americans the only chosen true
christians, we are majority of world becouse those others are worst
than pigs and 1 white protestant republican American is surely more
than 100 pigs. Lets make pig hunting. Maybe Moons will join us... They
like hauntings. If not Pruden and col. will do it.

Ok. Wow. Thats it.

Any critism, opinions are welcomed.
Bob Abendroth
2006-10-25 12:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Hello all (still) brothers and sisters, and also (almost) all
ex-members and christians and anti-moonies etc....
Lucifer....., please this hello is not for you, I will not communicate
with i.diots like you. I prefer serious talk.
Also please my English is quite poor, please dont use any idioms, slang
etc., I will not understand and not answer. OK? Or do you think that
English is the only language? Or that U.S. is the only democracy? (
must say - from 9/11 I have feeling that US has already nothing to do
with democracy and human rights :)) Anyway this is more sad than funny.
Hello John,

I understand your plight. I want to communicate with you. Please email
me your name, address and telephone number to me at
***@yahoo.com.

I will call you on the phone.

I have been a member for 31 years and have addressed all of these
issues inside myself.

Sincerely,

Bob Abendroth
Bob Abendroth
2006-10-25 13:01:05 UTC
Permalink
If my entire email address is not displayed on your end the missing
three letter of my last name are oth.......
Post by Bob Abendroth
I understand your plight. I want to communicate with you. Please email
me your name, address and telephone number to me at
I will call you on the phone.
I have been a member for 31 years and have addressed all of these
issues inside myself.
Sincerely,
Bob Abendroth
Robroy
2006-10-25 22:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Abendroth
Post by John from Europe
Hello all (still) brothers and sisters, and also (almost) all
ex-members and christians and anti-moonies etc....
Lucifer....., please this hello is not for you, I will not communicate
with i.diots like you. I prefer serious talk.
Also please my English is quite poor, please dont use any idioms, slang
etc., I will not understand and not answer. OK? Or do you think that
English is the only language? Or that U.S. is the only democracy? (
must say - from 9/11 I have feeling that US has already nothing to do
with democracy and human rights :)) Anyway this is more sad than funny.
Hello John,
I understand your plight. I want to communicate with you. Please email
me your name, address and telephone number to me at
=======================================
Eat your heart out BobbyPoo! It's far too late for you to instill any
substance in your Moonie brain. So why don't you follow John's lead
and flee the Sicko Cult leader. At least you will spare your sons a
life of abject servitude to a Crazy Loon named Moon! BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
(Robroy)

(Robroy)
Post by Bob Abendroth
I will call you on the phone.
I have been a member for 31 years and have addressed all of these
issues inside myself.
Sincerely,
Bob Abendroth
John from Europe
2006-10-26 08:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,

Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.

What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.

I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.

In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.

But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.

No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.

About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.

According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.

Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.

So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.

Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.

So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.

But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
b***@earthlink.net
2006-10-26 11:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.
In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.
But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.
No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.
About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.
According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.
Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.
So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.
Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.
So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.
But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
May I make a suggestion, John? Forget EVERYthing Moon has told -you-
and start from scratch. Cause Moon's Indemnity stick is broke. IE it
don't
work. Neither does anything else Moon told ya, it's all a scam, an act.

http://groups.google.com/group/moons-world

bd4u
b***@earthlink.net
2006-10-26 11:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by John from Europe
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.
In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.
But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.
No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.
About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.
According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.
Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.
So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.
Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.
So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.
But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
May I make a suggestion, John? Forget EVERYthing Moon has told -you-
and start from scratch. Cause Moon's Indemnity stick is broke. IE it
don't
work. Neither does anything else Moon told ya, it's all a scam, an act.
http://groups.google.com/group/moons-world
bd4u
P.S. I hope yer wife loves -you- more than she does Moon.
CrazyAsALoon
2006-11-22 00:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies.
Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about
holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about
it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it
better than you.
Don't worry John, this too shall pass.

Danny
Eric
2006-11-25 09:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Maybe it's not Euro, but it sure sounds like him in the first post.
This one shows some real effort to understand the Principle though.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.
In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.
But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.
No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.
About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.
According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.
Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.
So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.
Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.
So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.
But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-25 12:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric
Maybe it's not Euro, but it sure sounds like him in the first post.
This one shows some real effort to understand the Principle though.
Paranoid, and delusional. That's typical for you Eric, just like ALL
*moonies*!

;-/
Post by Eric
Post by John from Europe
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.
In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.
But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.
No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.
About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.
According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.
Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.
So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.
Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.
So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.
But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
Eric
2006-11-25 13:19:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by Eric
Maybe it's not Euro, but it sure sounds like him in the first post.
This one shows some real effort to understand the Principle though.
Paranoid, and delusional. That's typical for you Eric, just like ALL
*moonies*!
;-/
Hahaha, coming from you that is pretty good. You have no clue how
ironic that is, do you?
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by Eric
Post by John from Europe
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.
In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.
But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.
No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.
About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.
According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.
Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.
So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.
Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.
So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.
But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-25 22:30:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by Eric
Maybe it's not Euro, but it sure sounds like him in the first post.
This one shows some real effort to understand the Principle though.
Paranoid, and delusional. That's typical for you Eric, just like ALL
*moonies*!
;-/
Hahaha, coming from you that is pretty good. You have no clue how
ironic that is, do you?
Hehh, maybe -you- should look in a mirror for a change. Cause
irregardless
of yer past claims, the moment is NOW!
Post by Eric
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by Eric
Post by John from Europe
Post by Robroy
BTW, BobbyPoo, do
you believe as your sick master does and that he and his Sicko god
approved Adolph's Holocaust and 6 million dead Jews. What is it that
you, Eric, and all the other Zombies label such evil? Oh that's right
..... INDEMNITY!!!
Hello Robroy,
Sorry, I dont like ugly words you use.
Something else I dont like is spreading lies. Even about UC.
What you wrote about Moons teaching about holocaust is also not truth.
I will try to explain you Moon teaching about it. Maybe its not 100%
correct, I am not Moon. But surely I know it better than you.
In general there are two reasons for ones suffering.
1. something like Karma, but not about ones past lifes, but about ones
ancestors (or another ghosts connected to that person). They can bring
blessing and also suffering.
2. something like Charity - I mean if there is very good person, and
God sees that this person can indemnify something more, he uses this
person. For example Jesus was carried sins all all people. Or buddha,
or some simple good poor ill women in India, etc.......
Of course both are connected to indemnity.
But what is most important: God did not created indemnity.
Gods plan was ideal world without sin, suffering and indemnity.
God is never punishing. The one who is punishing is satan. I dont mean
Lucifer now. I mean bad spirits and sometimes even bad ancestors.
The problem is that God cannot control those bad spirits. Becouse they
have right to fulfill Karma. And therefore becouse God is obedient to
His laws, he cannot protect that person from bad spirits attacks.
No. 2 - is about Gods will. It makes good base for humanity to advance
spiritually.
About Holocaust. Moon has never said that Holocaust was Gods will. Moon
hates any persecution or intolerance to religious minorities.
He teaches that the reason for Jesus crucifiction was that Jews did not
belief in Jesus. But he does not mean every Jew, like for example some
poor fishermen who never met Jesus. Becouse maybe majority of Jews
living at that time never met or heard about Jesus.
He means mostly those most responsible for Jesus death. Those has
"killed" Jesus.
For example Jesus own family - Zacharia, Joseph, Mary, his brothers
(especially John the Baptist) and sisters, pharizees, his own disciples
and many others.
All these people helped Jesus to death. Of course nobody is perfect,
and only God can "judge" who did more evil than good to Jesus. But it
was not just Jews - also astrologers from east, Pilates, etc.
According Moon killing Jesus is like killing God on Earth. Becouse
every perfect man is Son of God. At that time Jesus was first one after
couples of ten thousands years of suffering. And God knew that it will
took couples of thousands years to prepare next messiah.
Therefore killing Jesus was biggest crime ever.
So satan was punishing many Jews for Jesus murder. How? By many bad
spirits who hated jews. Those bad spirits were supporting people on
earth who also hated Jews. But also those living people who were
persecuting Jews did sins. They are fully responsible for their acts.
Unfortunately evil is multiplying evil. And goodness is multiplying
goodness.
And next those bad jews spirits responsible for Jesus death were in
"hell" trying to go up (not suffer so much). So they used their
descendants to make them suffer in order to indemnify their sins.
Also all christians persecuting Jews during almost 2000 years are
responsible for their acts.
And vice versa Jews are responsible for persecuting early christians.
Or for persecuting Palestinians today.
So this teaching of Moon has nothing to do with "Holocaust was Gods
Will".
Gods will was that all people will love Jews. And that they will
forgive eachother (christians and jews) and reconcile (Moon is doing
this by MEPI - Middle East Peace Initiative).
And also the same Gods will is applicable for bad spirits.
But Gods will is so distant from sinfull people....
John from Europe
2006-10-26 05:48:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Abendroth
I want to communicate with you. Please email
me your name, address and telephone number to me
Hello Bob,

actually I am not prepared to give my personal data.
You know I am officially still moonie. Maybe some members in our
country know about this site. Giving my personal data would mean that
20 members will call me and will try to resolve my problems. I want to
remain anonymous.
I cannot even tell country I am coming from. There are not so many
Johns bleesed 97 and 99 having son and daughter. Actually I repent that
I gave so much information about me.

So my email is: ***@gmail.com

sw4u.com is not any webpage I think., if it is than its not mine.
Post by Bob Abendroth
I have been a member for 31 years and have addressed all of these
issues inside myself.
Well I am quite interested about your opinions.

With regards, John.
Gordon
2006-10-25 13:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Hello John,i live in Europe aswell,my main interests and beliefs are
New Age Movement Teachings aswell,i know that most of what you are
saying is true but sometimes people on this newsgroup make stories up
and add to true facts and exagerate stories,so how can we know who you
are and that everything you say is all true?

Do you have a website? or any way to back up your story?

Gordon Muir.
Post by John from Europe
Hello all (still) brothers and sisters, and also (almost) all
ex-members and christians and anti-moonies etc....
Lucifer....., please this hello is not for you, I will not communicate
with i.diots like you. I prefer serious talk.
Also please my English is quite poor, please dont use any idioms, slang
etc., I will not understand and not answer. OK? Or do you think that
English is the only language? Or that U.S. is the only democracy? (
must say - from 9/11 I have feeling that US has already nothing to do
with democracy and human rights :)) Anyway this is more sad than funny.
)
So my history: As a child I was raised as catholic. Later in 12 I
"left" christianity and "joined" New Age Movement. Was quite active in
this movement, did lot of meditations, some seminars. I joined UC in
1994, was 17 years old. I am bleesed second time. 1997 broken, 1999
successful (we love each other a lot). Have 2 children - son and
daughter.
1994, 1995 - very enthusiastic, positive. Had a big hope to future for
church. Our national church was fastly growing. It was all about love,
loving community, spirituality
1996 - 1/3 of blessings broken, some members left, growth stopped
(until now).
1997 - I am still very positive, 1st blessing is not easy - my wife is
not humble, wants too much, her faith is not so strong. I am full time,
doing FR
1998 - my spouse found herself a boyfriend, broke blessing and left
church. I have first time critical time. But my faith is strong. All
the time I am doing preblessing. Majority from blessings 97, 98 in our
country are broken. My best friend is also leaving church.
1999 - next blessing is coming. My faith became weakened. Especially
about blessing. I am pushed by my leaders to Blessing 99. I dont want
somehow. I cannot promise that I will not break. My leader accept this.
Finally my blessing is very good. Others are not so successfull.
I start to do inter-religious mission. Meet many religious groups,
study about them, doing common meetings. I have very difficult
relationship with my CARP leader. Even sunday services are so boring.
2000 continuing my inter-religious mission. Many old members from 94-97
already left church. In my city I cannot find any good friend. Almost
all young members already left. Our city is not doing any activities.
No wittnesing. Little by little I am loosing faith.
2001 Chong Pyong seminar, finishing university, my spouse is also
finishing university, starting family life. Starting job. Doing mission
only on family level during free time.
2002 problems with city leader, loosing faith, some new members coming,
some leaving, my two new friends are moving to distant city. My wife is
also not inspired to do some mission. Her brother becomes leader of
another city. All the time he is accusing us, that he is spiritually
younger, but very active, and that to believe is not enough, that we
will go surely to hell. Our son has been born. He is our major mission.
Cannot accept war in Iraq.
2003-2004 some MEPI in Israel during my vacation. A new fresh spiritual
wind. Once again have little faith, hope, ..... Also our dauhter has
been born. We are very busy with reconstruction of old house we have
purchased, especially with children and with my new job. Have no time
for any mission.
2005 one more MEPI. Once again loosing faith....
2006 Find out that I have no reason to continue in UC. Maybe comeback
to New Age?
I find out that It was not so much about love, loving community,
spirituality........... Actually it was too much about money,
byrocracy, totality, lies...
No discussions allowed, no doubts.
Everybody was all the time lying. On one seminar we were teached about
indian idiom: "A man with two tongues will not enter indian heaven".
Actually this was UC way.
For example Hyo Jin - all the time leaders said that the rumors are not
true, that it is from satan. That he is saint, he is a formula man.
And what about next "True" children. One is enjoying her honeymoon with
her boyfriend (a trainer). Second did suicide. Third is punk style
using many ugly words. But dont be afraid. At least they are not poor,
their Papa gave their millions of $$$ for their drugs, .........
Or Kahr Arms? "Are you crazy. It is totally stupid. Our church has
nothing to do with arms. It is lie from anti-cultists. It is against
principle."
Or what about latino Kontras? Nice, beatiful.
And Iraq. Many years no clear standpoint. 1/2 strongly against war, 1/2
fanatically for Bush and his holy wars. But most leaders in Europe was
for war and those against were persecuted. Many had to leave our church
just becouse their opinion about Iraq. And what about reverendo?
"France and Germany has fail and not followed America", and many
others.
And now? Peace tours.... and suddenly against wars. Reverendo,
Reverendo, you like to change your opinions.... Not like unchanging
God. Why? Becouse it is not so much popular in world? Or because it is
already clear how much did Adolf Bush killed innocent people (more than
500 000 Iraqi civilians)?
And what about Wash. Times? You like them so much! All the time we
heard about holy Times...
How can you americans even read them?
I have never seen so much racist, nationalistic, extreme and
pseudo-fascist papers.
This is your unification? tolerance? inter-religious and international
item? peace item?
And reverendo, he is so humble..... He likes to be admired, to be
devoted, to be always with VIPs, to be 1000x coronated.
"Thank you" or "Please".
Yes this is typically Korean "polite" (a higher race class) . Only
think he knows is to spread a critics and judge.
"You must this and this.."
"And I am superman. I did this and this, praying 1000 years, making 1
000 000 conditions simultaneously, earned all money for UC, matched
3x360 billion couples, made maps of myriads spiritual countries, spent
36 hours a day on fishing, ......"
And we members must do the same... give ten thousands of $$$ to church
all the time (in my country average sallary is about 300$), make 1000
of conditions (our continetal director already started maybe 54. 40-day
condition in his few years career. Maybe he wants to be popular enough,
that no member will forget his name when doing replacement surgery
after 1 000 000th full bow; whats the problem.... DMN and HMN already
did 1xe1000000000000000000000 bows), 24 hours of day do wittnessing, 24
hours of day do studying principle and read tens of speeches hundreds
of time, 24 hours do fundraising and raising thousands of dollars is
not enough, because Papa needs more for his purpose. (He needs more
palaces.)
And who is not capable to do this all is not worthy and is man of
failure. Typical satan child. Dont matter that he was blessed already
10 times and drink couples of gallons of wine/juice.
And those who does not agree: those are all communists!
Yes this is actually typical moonie style.
Those who are not one with reverendo or some leader are automatically
communists. So ex-monnies, christians, muslims, white people, japanese,
russians, non-believers, peace movements members, democrats these all
of course are communist. Becouse communists are worst people ever.
And those lovers and zombies of god Bush would say: those against
me=terrorists. And of course terrorists=communists. Lets destroy them.
Lets make our oil/weapons bussiness. Kook Jin will join us. Why to
destroy them? Becouse we are proud white Americans the only chosen true
christians, we are majority of world becouse those others are worst
than pigs and 1 white protestant republican American is surely more
than 100 pigs. Lets make pig hunting. Maybe Moons will join us... They
like hauntings. If not Pruden and col. will do it.
Ok. Wow. Thats it.
Any critism, opinions are welcomed.
John from Europe
2006-10-26 06:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Hello Gordon,

as you know "New Age" is very wide term. In my country there were many
such a groups. As I wrote I "joined" - that means our group has nothing
such as a membership.

Our group was based mostly on Jung and Stanislav Grof's Holotropic
Breathwork.
Of course we took lot of inspirations from buddhism, christianity,
shamanism, yoga, islam, etc.

At that time I was very young. Our leader (I was not about authority at
all, she was just helping others on their way) likes me quite much.
Maybe becouse I was so young, or maybe I "joined" almost in the
beginning of that group, who knows?

When I joined UC, she was not angry or sad. She was very tolerant and
accepted it. Actually in our country her group is officially treated by
goverment as dangerous destructive psycocult, same as UC is treated.

I still like New Age. But joining back to New Age is still little bit a
joke. Surely, it needs time.

Btw, I have not website. I have shared 56k modem internet at group of
accomodations and that is expensive enough for me, so bying a website
is out of question.
CrazyAsALoon
2006-10-28 19:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Would you include the new age groups that have
broken off of the UC. I listed 3 here a while
back. Have you ever read about them?

Danny

By the way, I don't believe that you are leaving
the UC. You have another motivation here.
Post by John from Europe
Hello Gordon,
as you know "New Age" is very wide term. In my
country there were many
such a groups. As I wrote I "joined" - that
means our group has nothing
such as a membership.
Our group was based mostly on Jung and Stanislav
Grof's Holotropic
Breathwork.
Of course we took lot of inspirations from
buddhism, christianity,
shamanism, yoga, islam, etc.
At that time I was very young. Our leader (I was
not about authority at
all, she was just helping others on their way)
likes me quite much.
Maybe becouse I was so young, or maybe I
"joined" almost in the
beginning of that group, who knows?
When I joined UC, she was not angry or sad. She
was very tolerant and
accepted it. Actually in our country her group
is officially treated by
goverment as dangerous destructive psycocult,
same as UC is treated.
I still like New Age. But joining back to New
Age is still little bit a
joke. Surely, it needs time.
Btw, I have not website. I have shared 56k modem
internet at group of
accomodations and that is expensive enough for
me, so bying a website
is out of question.
b***@earthlink.net
2006-10-28 20:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by CrazyAsALoon
Would you include the new age groups that have
broken off of the UC. I listed 3 here a while
back. Have you ever read about them?
Danny
By the way, I don't believe that you are leaving
the UC. You have another motivation here.
I think he probably IS, legit. Just scared shitless of
what will happen if he gets found out. You don't wanna
raise the ire and suspicion of anybody else, or you will
be assaulted by all kinds of reprogramming crapola.
Imagine how Bobby taunts even ME, to come back
done on a much braoder scale. Imagine if my wife was
a die hard *moonie*, how they would use her to get to ME
if I tried to leave Moon and his Church?!?

Pretty scary stuff to face, all by yerself. Moon has a very long
reach, as I'm sure RobRoy could tell ya, so could many others
as well. Reminds me of ODOM somewhat, trying hard not to
be found out.
Post by CrazyAsALoon
Post by John from Europe
Hello Gordon,
as you know "New Age" is very wide term. In my
country there were many
such a groups. As I wrote I "joined" - that
means our group has nothing
such as a membership.
Our group was based mostly on Jung and Stanislav
Grof's Holotropic
Breathwork.
Of course we took lot of inspirations from
buddhism, christianity,
shamanism, yoga, islam, etc.
At that time I was very young. Our leader (I was
not about authority at
all, she was just helping others on their way)
likes me quite much.
Maybe becouse I was so young, or maybe I
"joined" almost in the
beginning of that group, who knows?
When I joined UC, she was not angry or sad. She
was very tolerant and
accepted it. Actually in our country her group
is officially treated by
goverment as dangerous destructive psycocult,
same as UC is treated.
I still like New Age. But joining back to New
Age is still little bit a
joke. Surely, it needs time.
Btw, I have not website. I have shared 56k modem
internet at group of
accomodations and that is expensive enough for
me, so bying a website
is out of question.
b***@earthlink.net
2006-10-28 20:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by CrazyAsALoon
Would you include the new age groups that have
broken off of the UC. I listed 3 here a while
back. Have you ever read about them?
Danny
By the way, I don't believe that you are leaving
the UC. You have another motivation here.
I think he probably IS, legit. Just scared shitless of
what will happen if he gets found out. You don't wanna
raise the ire and suspicion of anybody else, or you will
be assaulted by all kinds of reprogramming crapola.
Imagine how Bobby taunts even ME, to come back
done on a much braoder scale. Imagine if my wife was
a die hard *moonie*, how they would use her to get to ME
if I tried to leave Moon and his Church?!?
Pretty scary stuff to face, all by yerself. Moon has a very long
reach, as I'm sure RobRoy could tell ya, so could many others
as well. Reminds me of ODOM somewhat, trying hard not to
be found out.
It's not easy to admit to people, that -you- screwed up and joined
some "cult". Even IF you "quit", as I'm sure you are well aware of.
It continues to haunt you for the rest of your life. You just have to
learn to deal with it. It's the same when you exit ANY *cult*.
There comes a long period of readjustment, as you sift through
the rubble of your broken life.
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by CrazyAsALoon
Post by John from Europe
Hello Gordon,
as you know "New Age" is very wide term. In my
country there were many
such a groups. As I wrote I "joined" - that
means our group has nothing
such as a membership.
Our group was based mostly on Jung and Stanislav
Grof's Holotropic
Breathwork.
Of course we took lot of inspirations from
buddhism, christianity,
shamanism, yoga, islam, etc.
At that time I was very young. Our leader (I was
not about authority at
all, she was just helping others on their way)
likes me quite much.
Maybe becouse I was so young, or maybe I
"joined" almost in the
beginning of that group, who knows?
When I joined UC, she was not angry or sad. She
was very tolerant and
accepted it. Actually in our country her group
is officially treated by
goverment as dangerous destructive psycocult,
same as UC is treated.
I still like New Age. But joining back to New
Age is still little bit a
joke. Surely, it needs time.
Btw, I have not website. I have shared 56k modem
internet at group of
accomodations and that is expensive enough for
me, so bying a website
is out of question.
Eric
2006-11-25 09:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Hello all (still) brothers and sisters, and also (almost) all
ex-members and christians and anti-moonies etc....
Lucifer....., please this hello is not for you, I will not communicate
with i.diots like you. I prefer serious talk.
Also please my English is quite poor, please dont use any idioms, slang
etc., I will not understand and not answer. OK? Or do you think that
English is the only language?
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Post by John from Europe
Or that U.S. is the only democracy?
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?

And are you trying to come off as being intelligent about all this when
the first thing you talk about is that the US is a democracy, instead
of a republic?
Post by John from Europe
(
must say - from 9/11 I have feeling that US has already nothing to do
with democracy and human rights :))
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Post by John from Europe
Anyway this is more sad than funny.
)
So my history: As a child I was raised as catholic. Later in 12 I
"left" christianity and "joined" New Age Movement. Was quite active in
this movement, did lot of meditations, some seminars. I joined UC in
1994, was 17 years old. I am bleesed second time. 1997 broken, 1999
successful (we love each other a lot). Have 2 children - son and
daughter.
That's really great!
Post by John from Europe
1994, 1995 - very enthusiastic, positive. Had a big hope to future for
church. Our national church was fastly growing. It was all about love,
loving community, spirituality
1996 - 1/3 of blessings broken, some members left, growth stopped
(until now).
1997 - I am still very positive, 1st blessing is not easy - my wife is
not humble, wants too much, her faith is not so strong. I am full time,
doing FR
Hmm, sounds like you have no fault here. Are you being really truthful
with yourself? (let alone being truthful with us)
Post by John from Europe
1998 - my spouse found herself a boyfriend, broke blessing and left
church. I have first time critical time. But my faith is strong. All
the time I am doing preblessing. Majority from blessings 97, 98 in our
country are broken. My best friend is also leaving church.
1999 - next blessing is coming. My faith became weakened. Especially
about blessing. I am pushed by my leaders to Blessing 99. I dont want
somehow. I cannot promise that I will not break. My leader accept this.
Finally my blessing is very good. Others are not so successfull.
I start to do inter-religious mission. Meet many religious groups,
study about them, doing common meetings. I have very difficult
relationship with my CARP leader. Even sunday services are so boring.
2000 continuing my inter-religious mission. Many old members from 94-97
already left church. In my city I cannot find any good friend.
And you think that is going to be different in what faith movement?
Post by John from Europe
Almost
all young members already left. Our city is not doing any activities.
No wittnesing. Little by little I am loosing faith.
2001 Chong Pyong seminar, finishing university, my spouse is also
finishing university, starting family life. Starting job. Doing mission
only on family level during free time.
2002 problems with city leader, loosing faith, some new members coming,
some leaving, my two new friends are moving to distant city. My wife is
also not inspired to do some mission. Her brother becomes leader of
another city. All the time he is accusing us, that he is spiritually
younger, but very active, and that to believe is not enough, that we
will go surely to hell.
Sounds like the faith of a young zealot. Be patient with him. Have
confidence in yourself and don't let the accusations keep you from
following your conscience to do what you can to serve God and TP.
Post by John from Europe
Our son has been born. He is our major mission.
Yes, that is true, but life is a question of balance.
Post by John from Europe
Cannot accept war in Iraq.
Well, it's real. Guess you have no choice. Do you?
Post by John from Europe
2003-2004 some MEPI in Israel during my vacation. A new fresh spiritual
wind. Once again have little faith, hope, .....
Yes, close contact with what our TP are doing can do that. Keep that
feeling and know it is real.
Post by John from Europe
Also our dauhter has
been born. We are very busy with reconstruction of old house we have
purchased, especially with children and with my new job. Have no time
for any mission.
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Post by John from Europe
2005 one more MEPI. Once again loosing faith....
2006 Find out that I have no reason to continue in UC. Maybe comeback
to New Age?
I find out that It was not so much about love, loving community,
spirituality........... Actually it was too much about money,
byrocracy, totality, lies...
No discussions allowed, no doubts.
Everybody was all the time lying. On one seminar we were teached about
indian idiom: "A man with two tongues will not enter indian heaven".
Actually this was UC way.
For example Hyo Jin - all the time leaders said that the rumors are not
true, that it is from satan. That he is saint, he is a formula man.
And what about next "True" children. One is enjoying her honeymoon with
her boyfriend (a trainer). Second did suicide. Third is punk style
using many ugly words. But dont be afraid. At least they are not poor,
their Papa gave their millions of $$$ for their drugs, .........
Or Kahr Arms? "Are you crazy. It is totally stupid. Our church has
nothing to do with arms. It is lie from anti-cultists. It is against
principle."
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.

But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
Post by John from Europe
Or what about latino Kontras? Nice, beatiful.
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Post by John from Europe
And Iraq. Many years no clear standpoint. 1/2 strongly against war, 1/2
fanatically for Bush and his holy wars.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Post by John from Europe
But most leaders in Europe was
for war and those against were persecuted. Many had to leave our church
just becouse their opinion about Iraq.
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Post by John from Europe
And what about reverendo?
"France and Germany has fail and not followed America", and many
others.
That would be true. In all likelihood, had France and Germany (and
Russia) united in the UN Security Council against Saddam, then he
wouldn't have felt that he could stand against world opinion of his
thuggery and maybe stepped down.
Post by John from Europe
And now? Peace tours.... and suddenly against wars.
Certainly not suddenly. Why do you wish to paint such a warped
perspective of black and white?
Post by John from Europe
Reverendo,
Reverendo, you like to change your opinions.... Not like unchanging
God. Why?
John, you haven't actually stated Rev. Moon's opinion correctly.
Post by John from Europe
Becouse it is not so much popular in world? Or because it is
already clear how much did Adolf Bush killed innocent people (more than
500 000 Iraqi civilians)?
Even the Iraq Body Count folks call that a fantastical imaginary number.

You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Post by John from Europe
And what about Wash. Times? You like them so much! All the time we
heard about holy Times...
How can you americans even read them?
I have never seen so much racist, nationalistic, extreme and
pseudo-fascist papers.
Uh-huh. You mean besides Der Spiegel?

Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Post by John from Europe
This is your unification? tolerance? inter-religious and international
item? peace item?
And reverendo, he is so humble..... He likes to be admired, to be
devoted, to be always with VIPs, to be 1000x coronated.
You sound like Euro again. Hmmm...
Post by John from Europe
"Thank you" or "Please".
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
Post by John from Europe
Yes this is typically Korean "polite" (a higher race class) .
You really aren't fooling anyone, you know...
Post by John from Europe
Only
think he knows is to spread a critics and judge.
"You must this and this.."
"And I am superman. I did this and this, praying 1000 years, making 1
000 000 conditions simultaneously, earned all money for UC, matched
3x360 billion couples, made maps of myriads spiritual countries, spent
36 hours a day on fishing, ......"
And we members must do the same... give ten thousands of $$$ to church
all the time (in my country average sallary is about 300$), make 1000
of conditions (our continetal director already started maybe 54. 40-day
condition in his few years career. Maybe he wants to be popular enough,
that no member will forget his name when doing replacement surgery
after 1 000 000th full bow; whats the problem.... DMN and HMN already
did 1xe1000000000000000000000 bows), 24 hours of day do wittnessing, 24
hours of day do studying principle and read tens of speeches hundreds
of time, 24 hours do fundraising and raising thousands of dollars is
not enough, because Papa needs more for his purpose. (He needs more
palaces.)
And who is not capable to do this all is not worthy and is man of
failure. Typical satan child. Dont matter that he was blessed already
10 times and drink couples of gallons of wine/juice.
And those who does not agree: those are all communists!
Yes this is actually typical moonie style.
Those who are not one with reverendo or some leader are automatically
communists. So ex-monnies, christians, muslims, white people, japanese,
russians, non-believers, peace movements members, democrats these all
of course are communist. Becouse communists are worst people ever.
And those lovers and zombies of god Bush would say: those against
me=terrorists. And of course terrorists=communists. Lets destroy them.
Lets make our oil/weapons bussiness. Kook Jin will join us. Why to
destroy them? Becouse we are proud white Americans the only chosen true
christians, we are majority of world becouse those others are worst
than pigs and 1 white protestant republican American is surely more
than 100 pigs. Lets make pig hunting. Maybe Moons will join us... They
like hauntings. If not Pruden and col. will do it.
Ok. Wow. Thats it.
Any critism, opinions are welcomed.
Yep, Euro...

We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
John from Europe
2006-11-27 11:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Hmmm... I would like to know Euro. Is he member of this group. I will
look for him. And share my opinions and experiences.
Post by Eric
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?
US is not problem. I think that all people have same value (even
americans maybe)
The only problem is Bush and his bandits. Democracy is ok somehow, not
very ideal, but little bit better than monarchy and little bit better
than totality. I like democracy and hope something better will be in
future.
Rev. Moon - there are many things which make me anger about him and his
key followers.
Post by Eric
US is a democracy, instead of a republic?
Soviet union was also republic. But americans are proud that they are
democratic republic. Maybe yes. But in europe people mostly dont
consider US as a democratic one. Especially after Bush.
Post by Eric
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Trying to find something good on these wars would take long time....
Maybe spreading hate about islam has also something white inside. Yes I
thing so.
It will make muslims more faithfull and they will heve more holy
martyrs. Yes its grey actually.
Post by Eric
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Of course I can do fulltime mission. Abandon my wife, children, job,
loose any money, sell my house in order to give all needed donations,
.... And finally became beggar and looser.
Hello, welcome in real world. This is not a fairy tale.
Post by Eric
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.
Hey, how long are you member? You were never teached that lying is so
important? I was teached so by many leaders. Lying on FR, lying on
wittnessing, lying to mass media, lying to younger members, lying to
parents, lying to police, ...... Do you thing that this ok?
Post by Eric
But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
HJN - how long Moon knew about his son's problems? And what he did to
reverse it? Looks like nothing. Just study HJN case. Nan Sook is good
book.
Suicide? Of course not, church is saying about accident - angels could
not save him. You know one my friend, ex-leader in France had leaved
church becouse of this tragedy. That time he was in Korea and many
Korean leaders spoke openly about this suicide. In Korea it was no
tabu. When he came back to France he gave sermon on this topic trying
to explain why it happened. That day he became ex-leader. Now he is
already ex-member. As I heard he joined group around Niklaus Gubser and
another ex-members.
This one group is very mystical, you know. It is another moonie cult in
Europe. There are many ex-leaders from Europe church. It is growing
quite fastly. I tried many times to ask members about this group. But
it is tabu. I even dont know what they believe. But Europe church is
quite scared about this group.
Post by Eric
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Nobody is for war? In UC? Where are you living? Which UC?
Actually in many local churches this was black-white topics. Members
used to satanize the opposite members.
Post by Eric
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Please tell me what he was saying about this war. Please. I think that
you should study a lot about his words about Iraq. And you will be
surprised.
Post by Eric
You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Super, I really must find this Euro.
Post by Eric
Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Just read it.
Post by Eric
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
I cannot believe you.
Post by Eric
Yep, Euro...
Very easy explanation. If two people have common opinions there is
bigger chance that they are true.
Post by Eric
We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
I didnt refuse. He can contact me at ***@gmail.com. I just want to
stay anonymous. I am not crazy. I dont want to members pay attention on
me. I want to leave silently.
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-27 22:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Hmmm... I would like to know Euro. Is he member of this group. I will
look for him. And share my opinions and experiences.
Post by Eric
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?
US is not problem. I think that all people have same value (even
americans maybe)
The only problem is Bush and his bandits. Democracy is ok somehow, not
very ideal, but little bit better than monarchy and little bit better
than totality. I like democracy and hope something better will be in
future.
Rev. Moon - there are many things which make me anger about him and his
key followers.
Post by Eric
US is a democracy, instead of a republic?
Soviet union was also republic. But americans are proud that they are
democratic republic. Maybe yes. But in europe people mostly dont
consider US as a democratic one. Especially after Bush.
Post by Eric
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Trying to find something good on these wars would take long time....
Maybe spreading hate about islam has also something white inside. Yes I
thing so.
It will make muslims more faithfull and they will heve more holy
martyrs. Yes its grey actually.
Post by Eric
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Of course I can do fulltime mission. Abandon my wife, children, job,
loose any money, sell my house in order to give all needed donations,
.... And finally became beggar and looser.
Hello, welcome in real world. This is not a fairy tale.
Post by Eric
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.
Hey, how long are you member? You were never teached that lying is so
important? I was teached so by many leaders. Lying on FR, lying on
wittnessing, lying to mass media, lying to younger members, lying to
parents, lying to police, ...... Do you thing that this ok?
Post by Eric
But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
HJN - how long Moon knew about his son's problems? And what he did to
reverse it? Looks like nothing. Just study HJN case. Nan Sook is good
book.
Suicide? Of course not, church is saying about accident - angels could
not save him. You know one my friend, ex-leader in France had leaved
church becouse of this tragedy. That time he was in Korea and many
Korean leaders spoke openly about this suicide. In Korea it was no
tabu. When he came back to France he gave sermon on this topic trying
to explain why it happened. That day he became ex-leader. Now he is
already ex-member. As I heard he joined group around Niklaus Gubser and
another ex-members.
This one group is very mystical, you know. It is another moonie cult in
Europe. There are many ex-leaders from Europe church. It is growing
quite fastly. I tried many times to ask members about this group. But
it is tabu. I even dont know what they believe. But Europe church is
quite scared about this group.
Post by Eric
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Nobody is for war? In UC? Where are you living? Which UC?
Actually in many local churches this was black-white topics. Members
used to satanize the opposite members.
Post by Eric
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Please tell me what he was saying about this war. Please. I think that
you should study a lot about his words about Iraq. And you will be
surprised.
Post by Eric
You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Super, I really must find this Euro.
Post by Eric
Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Just read it.
Post by Eric
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
I cannot believe you.
Post by Eric
Yep, Euro...
Very easy explanation. If two people have common opinions there is
bigger chance that they are true.
Post by Eric
We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
stay anonymous. I am not crazy. I dont want to members pay attention on
me. I want to leave silently.
Well, one thing is for sure. This is NOT Euro. Hey John, if you want to
talk to me
I'll try to be there. Just e-mail.

P.S. I joined in 1977, split in 1999 been a *critic* ever since.

Bruce
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-28 03:01:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Hmmm... I would like to know Euro. Is he member of this group. I will
look for him. And share my opinions and experiences.
Post by Eric
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?
US is not problem. I think that all people have same value (even
americans maybe)
The only problem is Bush and his bandits. Democracy is ok somehow, not
very ideal, but little bit better than monarchy and little bit better
than totality. I like democracy and hope something better will be in
future.
Rev. Moon - there are many things which make me anger about him and his
key followers.
Post by Eric
US is a democracy, instead of a republic?
Soviet union was also republic. But americans are proud that they are
democratic republic. Maybe yes. But in europe people mostly dont
consider US as a democratic one. Especially after Bush.
Post by Eric
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Trying to find something good on these wars would take long time....
Maybe spreading hate about islam has also something white inside. Yes I
thing so.
It will make muslims more faithfull and they will heve more holy
martyrs. Yes its grey actually.
Post by Eric
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Of course I can do fulltime mission. Abandon my wife, children, job,
loose any money, sell my house in order to give all needed donations,
.... And finally became beggar and looser.
Hello, welcome in real world. This is not a fairy tale.
Post by Eric
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.
Hey, how long are you member? You were never teached that lying is so
important? I was teached so by many leaders. Lying on FR, lying on
wittnessing, lying to mass media, lying to younger members, lying to
parents, lying to police, ...... Do you thing that this ok?
Post by Eric
But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
HJN - how long Moon knew about his son's problems? And what he did to
reverse it? Looks like nothing. Just study HJN case. Nan Sook is good
book.
Suicide? Of course not, church is saying about accident - angels could
not save him. You know one my friend, ex-leader in France had leaved
church becouse of this tragedy. That time he was in Korea and many
Korean leaders spoke openly about this suicide. In Korea it was no
tabu. When he came back to France he gave sermon on this topic trying
to explain why it happened. That day he became ex-leader. Now he is
already ex-member. As I heard he joined group around Niklaus Gubser and
another ex-members.
This one group is very mystical, you know. It is another moonie cult in
Europe. There are many ex-leaders from Europe church. It is growing
quite fastly. I tried many times to ask members about this group. But
it is tabu. I even dont know what they believe. But Europe church is
quite scared about this group.
Post by Eric
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Nobody is for war? In UC? Where are you living? Which UC?
Actually in many local churches this was black-white topics. Members
used to satanize the opposite members.
Post by Eric
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Please tell me what he was saying about this war. Please. I think that
you should study a lot about his words about Iraq. And you will be
surprised.
Post by Eric
You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Super, I really must find this Euro.
Post by Eric
Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Just read it.
Post by Eric
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
I cannot believe you.
Post by Eric
Yep, Euro...
Very easy explanation. If two people have common opinions there is
bigger chance that they are true.
Post by Eric
We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
stay anonymous. I am not crazy. I dont want to members pay attention on
me. I want to leave silently.
Please note the use of *forms* where in English it has NONE. This is
NOT by accident, but rather because of poor translation of words to
sentances as is typical between English and other European Languages
that actually use a "transitive form" of expression.


John, you need to learn English as good as Euro's. In order for me to
think you are Euro!

;-)

Cheers

Bruce
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-28 03:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@earthlink.net
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Hmmm... I would like to know Euro. Is he member of this group. I will
look for him. And share my opinions and experiences.
Post by Eric
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?
US is not problem. I think that all people have same value (even
americans maybe)
The only problem is Bush and his bandits. Democracy is ok somehow, not
very ideal, but little bit better than monarchy and little bit better
than totality. I like democracy and hope something better will be in
future.
Rev. Moon - there are many things which make me anger about him and his
key followers.
Post by Eric
US is a democracy, instead of a republic?
Soviet union was also republic. But americans are proud that they are
democratic republic. Maybe yes. But in europe people mostly dont
consider US as a democratic one. Especially after Bush.
Post by Eric
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Trying to find something good on these wars would take long time....
Maybe spreading hate about islam has also something white inside. Yes I
thing so.
It will make muslims more faithfull and they will heve more holy
martyrs. Yes its grey actually.
Post by Eric
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Of course I can do fulltime mission. Abandon my wife, children, job,
loose any money, sell my house in order to give all needed donations,
.... And finally became beggar and looser.
Hello, welcome in real world. This is not a fairy tale.
Post by Eric
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.
Hey, how long are you member? You were never teached that lying is so
important? I was teached so by many leaders. Lying on FR, lying on
wittnessing, lying to mass media, lying to younger members, lying to
parents, lying to police, ...... Do you thing that this ok?
Post by Eric
But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
HJN - how long Moon knew about his son's problems? And what he did to
reverse it? Looks like nothing. Just study HJN case. Nan Sook is good
book.
Suicide? Of course not, church is saying about accident - angels could
not save him. You know one my friend, ex-leader in France had leaved
church becouse of this tragedy. That time he was in Korea and many
Korean leaders spoke openly about this suicide. In Korea it was no
tabu. When he came back to France he gave sermon on this topic trying
to explain why it happened. That day he became ex-leader. Now he is
already ex-member. As I heard he joined group around Niklaus Gubser and
another ex-members.
This one group is very mystical, you know. It is another moonie cult in
Europe. There are many ex-leaders from Europe church. It is growing
quite fastly. I tried many times to ask members about this group. But
it is tabu. I even dont know what they believe. But Europe church is
quite scared about this group.
Post by Eric
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Nobody is for war? In UC? Where are you living? Which UC?
Actually in many local churches this was black-white topics. Members
used to satanize the opposite members.
Post by Eric
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Please tell me what he was saying about this war. Please. I think that
you should study a lot about his words about Iraq. And you will be
surprised.
Post by Eric
You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Super, I really must find this Euro.
Post by Eric
Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Just read it.
Post by Eric
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
I cannot believe you.
Post by Eric
Yep, Euro...
Very easy explanation. If two people have common opinions there is
bigger chance that they are true.
Post by Eric
We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
stay anonymous. I am not crazy. I dont want to members pay attention on
me. I want to leave silently.
Please note the use of *forms* where in English it has NONE. This is
NOT by accident, but rather because of poor translation of words to
sentances as is typical between English and other European Languages
that actually use a "transitive form" of expression.
John, you need to learn English as good as Euro's. In order for me to
think you are Euro!
;-)
Cheers
Bruce
To be clear, NO I don't believe you are Euro, I'm simply proving it's
impossible for you to be him, yer English is simply too broken.

Bruce
John from Europe
2006-11-28 08:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Yes my english is little bit poor. But I have no problem with it. I can
speak 2 another native languages (from parents) and also little bit
German (I would say I can understand more than speak). My family was
temporalily living in Germany 1 year when I was child. Its long time
ago already.
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-28 14:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Yes my english is little bit poor. But I have no problem with it. I can
speak 2 another native languages (from parents) and also little bit
German (I would say I can understand more than speak). My family was
temporalily living in Germany 1 year when I was child. Its long time
ago already.
Yeah well, I have no problem understanding you. But maybe Eric does.
I know some Spanish as well as English, and my ancestral language
is French. So I know a little bit about what a "transitive form" is,
and
how it regulates sentance structure for Non-english speaking Europeans.

I wish you luck John, and what I said previously I meant. I hope your
wife
loves you more than she does Moon or you may have troubles seperating
from the Church.

l8r amigo..

Bruce
Eric
2006-11-28 21:39:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@earthlink.net
John, you need to learn English as good as Euro's. In order for me to
think you are Euro!
But remember not to learn English as poorly as Bruce.
b***@earthlink.net
2006-11-28 21:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric
Post by b***@earthlink.net
John, you need to learn English as good as Euro's. In order for me to
think you are Euro!
But remember not to learn English as poorly as Bruce.
When are -you- *moonies* gonna STOP *attacking* people and make
PEACE?!?

Ehhh, *moonie* Eric?
Eric
2006-11-28 21:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Hmmm... I would like to know Euro. Is he member of this group. I will
look for him. And share my opinions and experiences.
Well, I think the jury is still out on whether or not the only effort
you have to make in looking for Euro is to find a mirror.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?
US is not problem. I think that all people have same value (even
americans maybe)
The only problem is Bush and his bandits.
That would be President Bush, he is democratically elected to lead a
republic that has been attacked and had war declared upon it. Our
nation has processes for dealing with corruption. Do you have evidence
that the President is corrupt? Perhaps you can present it?
Post by John from Europe
Democracy is ok somehow, not
very ideal, but little bit better than monarchy and little bit better
than totality.
Little better?
Post by John from Europe
I like democracy and hope something better will be in
future.
Rev. Moon - there are many things which make me anger about him and his
key followers.
We understand that you have a lot of resentment and that you translate
that and justify it as anger.

Does that work well for you? Is it a good option for dealing with
challenging situations in your life? Is it a good position from which
to ask God for guidance?
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
US is a democracy, instead of a republic?
Soviet union was also republic.
Really? How so? Oh, I see, it was in their name.
Post by John from Europe
But americans are proud that they are
democratic republic. Maybe yes. But in europe people mostly dont
consider US as a democratic one. Especially after Bush.
Most Americans that pay attention to Europe at all think that it isn't
very democratic either.

More interesting is the recent discussion I have been reading between
Ralph Peters and Mark Steyn.

Steyn has been noting that Europeans have a death wish, that most of
them have no desire for children and are selfish and self-destructive.
As a result it will be the Eurabian branch of the Caliphate within
another two generations, and they will be outbred and outfought.

Peters is arguing that we don't need to worry about that, because
Europeans are top-of-the-world first class haters and will revert to
their fascist roots, driving out and killing the Muslims.

Out of that pair believe it or not, Peters is the optimist.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Trying to find something good on these wars would take long time....
That's because you don't read enough.
Post by John from Europe
Maybe spreading hate about islam has also something white inside. Yes I
thing so.
It will make muslims more faithfull and they will heve more holy
martyrs. Yes its grey actually.
You are falling on the Steyn side of the argument. But I bet it
wouldn't take much for you to switch over to Peters.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Of course I can do fulltime mission. Abandon my wife, children, job,
loose any money, sell my house in order to give all needed donations,
.... And finally became beggar and looser.
Hello, welcome in real world. This is not a fairy tale.
But you turned what I said into your own fairy tale, rather than think
about what I really said.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.
Hey, how long are you member? You were never teached that lying is so
important? I was teached so by many leaders.
I was taught by my parents, both physical and true, to be a person of
integrity and to follow my conscience.
Post by John from Europe
Lying on FR, lying on
wittnessing, lying to mass media, lying to younger members, lying to
parents, lying to police, ...... Do you thing that this ok?
No, and I don't.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
HJN - how long Moon knew about his son's problems? And what he did to
reverse it? Looks like nothing.
You mean you aren't privy to the internal affairs in Rev. Moon's
family, and choose to ignore what is public record.
Post by John from Europe
Just study HJN case. Nan Sook is good
book.
If you like looking and thinking about one side of a situation, from
the viewpoint of an apostate that has to justify her apostasy,
ghostwritten by an author who was paid to make the Moon family look as
bad as she possibly could.
Post by John from Europe
Suicide? Of course not, church is saying about accident - angels could
not save him. You know one my friend, ex-leader in France had leaved
church becouse of this tragedy. That time he was in Korea and many
Korean leaders spoke openly about this suicide. In Korea it was no
tabu. When he came back to France he gave sermon on this topic trying
to explain why it happened. That day he became ex-leader. Now he is
already ex-member. As I heard he joined group around Niklaus Gubser and
another ex-members.
Many people talk openly about things they actually *know* little of.
Post by John from Europe
This one group is very mystical, you know. It is another moonie cult in
Europe. There are many ex-leaders from Europe church. It is growing
quite fastly. I tried many times to ask members about this group. But
it is tabu. I even dont know what they believe. But Europe church is
quite scared about this group.
Post by Eric
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Nobody is for war?
That's right. Nobody is for war, they just like the alternatives that
are presented less.

No one is for putting anyone in prison, they just like the available
alternatives less.
Post by John from Europe
In UC? Where are you living? Which UC?
Actually in many local churches this was black-white topics. Members
used to satanize the opposite members.
Grow up. Use your head.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Please tell me what he was saying about this war. Please. I think that
you should study a lot about his words about Iraq. And you will be
surprised.
I will? Okay, you think you know so much, and you have studied what
Rev. Moon has said about this deeply. Make your case. It shouldn't take
but an hour or two more than you just used to write this message, to
write out a decent argument *including* furnishing the references to
where Rev. Moon said what you will tell us about. I will be looking
forward to it. Take ten days, schedule it in somewhere.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Super, I really must find this Euro.
Post by Eric
Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Just read it.
I do. Make your case with specifics. Go ahead.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
I cannot believe you.
As you wish.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
Yep, Euro...
Very easy explanation. If two people have common opinions there is
bigger chance that they are true.
Wow, that's why they imprisoned Galileo, you know.

Actually, if two people share the same opinion, the only truth that
shows is that they have the same opinion. It has no bearing at all on
whether or not their opinion is true.
Post by John from Europe
Post by Eric
We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
stay anonymous. I am not crazy. I dont want to members pay attention on
me. I want to leave silently.
Uh-huh. I can see that. Ever so silent.

I am glad to see you here, if you are who you say you are.

But I think that if you are, then you are painting yourself in a
corner, setting up a position from which you deal in resentment rather
than reason, and nuture that resentment rather than openly discuss your
situation.
John from Europe
2014-04-14 11:41:41 UTC
Permalink
This is just an edited reply from the past, I just removed one name mentioned here.
Post by Eric
You know, John, you really come off sounding like our old friend Euro.
Hmmm... I would like to know Euro. Is he member of this group. I will
look for him. And share my opinions and experiences.
Post by Eric
Well, John, do you just have a problem with the US or democracy or Rev.
Moon or pretty much just everything?
US is not problem. I think that all people have same value (even
americans maybe)
The only problem is Bush and his bandits. Democracy is ok somehow, not
very ideal, but little bit better than monarchy and little bit better
than totality. I like democracy and hope something better will be in
future.
Rev. Moon - there are many things which make me anger about him and his
key followers.
Post by Eric
US is a democracy, instead of a republic?
Soviet union was also republic. But americans are proud that they are
democratic republic. Maybe yes. But in europe people mostly dont
consider US as a democratic one. Especially after Bush.
Post by Eric
Well, that's a bit of a statement over the top, isn't it? Did you
bother to study the Principle or don't you think it is serious when it
says that since the human fall, all things have good and bad about
them? Why do you want to paint it all black and white?
Trying to find something good on these wars would take long time....
Maybe spreading hate about islam has also something white inside. Yes I
thing so.
It will make muslims more faithfull and they will heve more holy
martyrs. Yes its grey actually.
Post by Eric
You would be surprised what you can make time for, if you want.
Of course I can do fulltime mission. Abandon my wife, children, job,
loose any money, sell my house in order to give all needed donations,
.... And finally became beggar and looser.
Hello, welcome in real world. This is not a fairy tale.
Post by Eric
It's strange that your leaders would lie to you.
Hey, how long are you member? You were never teached that lying is so
important? I was teached so by many leaders. Lying on FR, lying on
wittnessing, lying to mass media, lying to younger members, lying to
parents, lying to police, ...... Do you thing that this ok?
Post by Eric
But Rev. Moon doesn't give his children money for drugs. And the fifth
son suiciding? I would say that the jury is out on that one.
HJN - how long Moon knew about his son's problems? And what he did to
reverse it? Looks like nothing. Just study HJN case. Nan Sook is good
book.
Suicide? Of course not, church is saying about accident - angels could
not save him. You know one my friend, ex-leader in France had leaved
church becouse of this tragedy. That time he was in Korea and many
Korean leaders spoke openly about this suicide. In Korea it was no
tabu. When he came back to France he gave sermon on this topic trying
to explain why it happened. That day he became ex-leader. Now he is
already ex-member. As I heard he joined Okamoto group.
This one group is very mystical, you know. It is another moonie cult in
Europe. There are many ex-leaders from Europe church. It is growing
quite fastly. I tried many times to ask members about this group. But
it is tabu. I even dont know what they believe. But Europe church is
quite scared about this group.
Post by Eric
What about the people that were persecuted and martyred by the
Sandinistas who later were able to win the popular vote aginst them and
put them out? Many of them were quite beautiful people.
Nobody's for war, why do you always seek to put things in such warped
black and white perspective?
Nobody is for war? In UC? Where are you living? Which UC?
Actually in many local churches this was black-white topics. Members
used to satanize the opposite members.
Post by Eric
They weren't paying attention to what Rev. Moon says then.
Please tell me what he was saying about this war. Please. I think that
you should study a lot about his words about Iraq. And you will be
surprised.
Post by Eric
You are still sounding like Euro/JC.
Super, I really must find this Euro.
Post by Eric
Anyway, what is racist about the paper? Or are you pretty much mouthing
what "Pear" says?
Just read it.
Post by Eric
I have been around him quite a bit. Surely he does.
I cannot believe you.
Post by Eric
Yep, Euro...
Very easy explanation. If two people have common opinions there is
bigger chance that they are true.
Post by Eric
We know who you really are. No wonder when Bob invited you to dialogue,
you refused. How lame.
I didnt refuse. He can contact me at ***@gmail.com. I just want to
stay anonymous. I am not crazy. I dont want to members pay attention on
me. I want to leave silently.

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